This Blog is for the residents of Pawnee Hills to discuss any matters they would like to. The HOA board refused to start one indicating it would be too negative. We are all adults and certainly we can communicate on an adult level. This is not meant to be a complaint board but a discussion board. Do you have an idea that will help the community? Please share it here! All are welcome here. If you prefer you may leave your comments anonymously. Either way, we are glad to have you here!
I'll start out by commenting on the Chicken Issue. I was disappointed by the results. The number of residents that do not participate in these matters makes it impossible to change anything. Come on people, A few hens is not a big deal! As someone posted in the Mail building Apathy had become the ruler in the community.
Because of the way our quorum is set up, we must have 112 actual yes votes from our neighbors. Almost half of them do not bother to vote. All non votes are counted as no vote. This is where our problem lies. The reason we have so many apathetic voters is because of the very incident that happened at the recent January 2013 HOA meeting. A long time resident (who obviously opposes any change) was very rude and condescending towards another homeowner who was supporting change. Even when asked to stop their actions that person continued to harass and threaten with remarks throughout the rest of the meeting. This is not very neighborly behavior.. The counting of non votes is the issue of concern. Many of our residents have decided not to become involved in the issues in this neighborhood because of the very behavior that was exhibited at our most recent HOA meeting in January. We therefor can not assume that all of them are opposed to change. We need to make a motion to change the statis of all the non votes. Non votes should not be counted or at the very least divided equally between the yes and nos. Then we can fairly meet the needs of our community. As our present system is set it has become an unfair representation of our community. This system gives control to a small majority of homeowners that are getting away with a very selfish and narrow minded agenda.
Anonymous, I agree with you. How can we best accomplish this? We could attempt to change the covenant again and add language to address the apathetic vote. Perhaps a separate covenant change would be a better and cleaner approach.
GRASSHOPPERS are destroying my food crops. I live on a lot without many trees and lots of open grassy area. I have lived here for over twenty years now. The grasshopper population has gotten worse every year. Last summer it was the worst it has ever been. Drought perpetuates their population. I have tried nolo bait with no success. I do not want to use the severe chemical pesticide that is required to eliminate the crusty buggers. I do not want to destroy the beneficial insects in my garden nor poison the food I grow for my family.Birds are their natural predators but the wild ones can't keep up with the exploding population. We are not allowed to have any domestic foul. Chickens would have been a sensible, natural, eco friendly solution for me. Does anyone have a solution? "The Frustrated Gardener"
Non votes are not counted as "yes" or "no" votes. They're simply not counted. According to the Covenants, it takes 2/3rds or 112 "yes" votes to change a Covenant.
It is currently required to have 2/3 or 112 residents approval to make any changes to our community rules. This would be fine if all our residents would choose to participate in the voting process. More than 1/3 of them are choosing not to vote. If these people are "simply not counted" then they should "simply not be counted' in the total votes required. The 112 votes required for making a change is based on an ideal situation of all 167 members voting.The last time we called for a vote only 104 members voted. Even if they had all voted for change we still could not have reached the 112 goal.As it was...of the voting members we had more than a 2/3 majority for change! This quorum voting system was set up over 30 years ago by the builder to insure protection on voting rights on the undeveloped lots and to insure conformity in the structures and prohibit commercial animal activities like cattle ranching, pig farming and large chicken facilities. It now unfairly serves a small majority of folks who don't want change and 1/3 of the neighborhood who is apathetic. We need to change our voting total requirement. It should be based on a 2/3 majority of voting members only. Lets make a change so that all of our members can enjoy the lifestyle that they desire. Why are we allowing a few no change members and a silent apathetic group to determine what we can and can not do? We need to locate our non voting members, they are inaccurately represented and inhibiting progress in our neighborhood.
I would like to mention that some of the more vocal non change neighbors are concerned that a few hens might bring down their property values. But after taking a good look at the homes that make up Pawnee Hills - a few hens wouldn't hurt the already declining view of the property included in PHCA. Drive along the streets and you will see piles of concrete in front of houses that have been there for years, Abandoned applieances clearly visable from the streets, buildings in desperate need of repair and scrap metal in heaps around houses. Fences that are falling down etc. There is more eye sore than a couple of hens could cause.'
Talk about bringing down property values!!!!! I have a friend who sells realestate. She recently helped one of my neighbors sell their home last year. She said that home and others in Pawnee Hills have been difficult to sell because of the rigid animal restrictions. Times have changed. Many people who want to move here want a little more diversity in the animals they can have. I agree that there are some properties that have unsightly piles of 'stuff". If we are so concerned about animals devaluing our property, why are we not concerned about people devaluing our property???????
REGARDING OLD APPLIANCES LAYING AROUND How about if we do an old appliance collection day. There are companies who come pick them up. Since we are all so far out here in"paradise", maybe we could gather up several of us who need things taken away. We might be able to get a better rate that way. I have an old fridge in my garage that I would like to get rid of.
REGARDING ABANDONED APPLIANCES...I have an old fridge I need to get rid of. There are companies that haul them off. Maybe if we could round up a group of us in the neighborhood we could get a better rate since we live so far out here in "paradise". Is there anyone else that has appliances they would like hauled off?
It also takes 112 votes to change the "voting procedure". I think most neighbors are satisfied. Didn't any of you read the Covenants before you bought your property? It's fine to try and change a Covenant but don't be upset with those who are happy with it like it is.
Once we have chickens you will still be happy with the way it is!! Lets help support the needs of all members in the community. Maybe we can repair and rejuvenate some good neighborly relationships if we quit trying to micro manage others rights to a fulfilled lifestyle. It so much more rewarding to support one another than is to keep battling and arguing over things that really wont hurt anyone at all. Lets support our neighbors!
I believe that some non voters just don't care one way or the other. This means that they would not care if we had chickens. Some non voters are very discouraged by the behavior displayed by some of our residents at our homeowners meetings and are just refusing to participate at all. I know that some of mine just overlook any thing that goes on. This is a very large group that is miss represented and hindering the fulfillment of the needs of the rest of the community. We must determine who our non voters are and why they are not voting. It is too large of a group to label with satisfaction as the sole reason for not voting. Making voting a requirement to have your voice heard would solve alot of problems in this neighborhood. It would give us true proof of how our residents feel. The request for chickens is very reasonable and will serve our residents in many beneficial ways. Why must others inhibit the progress of such a beneficial addition to our neighborhood?
That is a fair statement. I think there are other reasons that change is needed. For one thing there should be something in our covenants that allow only so many vehicles on the property or at least in open view. And regarding "junk" on the property, I agree there should be some type of guideline in the covenant as well. Step up and submit some language - put it to a vote! The problem lies with the voting process. That's what we need to update. So we can actually change things. If you don't want chickens, don't get them. If your neighbor has a few hens and they are bothering you, talk to them. Though they are much less likely to bother you than their dogs are. Backyard Chickens is a Nationwide movement now and property values are not suffering because of it.
There are many more issues besides the chickens. Chickens are allowed in Denver county..city folks. I think if someone wants chickens, they should be able to have them. You just need to include the clause about keeping the area clean. I also feel we live in a small community where our kids dont have a lot to do. One activity is 4H and it would be nice to have some stipulation for those kids to have their project on their property. Our bylaws were written in 1972 and little has been done to update them. I think it may be a good time to get a committee together to review and update.
lets do get a committee together. We have a club house at our disposal and a web site to communicate on. Lets start a committee and talk about figuring out how to go about solving our non voting member problem. It is obvious that many of our members are frustrated. I am glad this venting is going on here and not at a hoa meeting. Lets make sure we keep things civil here though. No personal vendettas please. We have a huge problem to solve and it sure would be wonderful to be able to come together and work things out .We do need change and an update on our whole system. So...when should we hold our first meeting????
Thanks for clearing that up, maybe a good time to refresh anyway. There is verbiage in the bylaws that allow control beyond what should be given to another homeowner. I know many HOA's hire mgmt companies to run their HOA. Keeps things a little more professional rather than having a couple of folks that use it to abuse those who question their practices or the way they do things. We have a vindictive board and its scary. I just want to know what they are afraid of. Signs get pulled off the bullitan board, and the fact that who ever started this blog was advised by the board they didnt want homeowners talking to one another....whats up with that???? Why do the same people continue to run this HOA? US Presidents only get 8 years. THere is a good reason to change the administration...we need to get new ideas and people who are not so complacent.
You may be righy but exactly how is the board vindictive and what makes you think they're afraid? To my knowledge, they've remained neutral about the subject of chickens in the commmunity. If you're so unhappy with the board, why don't you attend monthly meetings and express your concerns?
I think we should do away with it all. All we do is bicker and fight. and pay alot of money to outside sources to run a pool and a clubhouse. I have paid over 20,000. in dues since I have lived here and I cant house a couple of measly chickens. I have raised children and lost a husband and just barely hung on to my land and house. I have a ailment that is perpetuated by toxins , hormones and processed foods. I want to be able within common courtesy to farm and raise necessary things to feed my family. I love my home as much as anyone else. Why can I not live as I desire. I could have bought my own pool for 20 grand.
Please leave personal vendettas out of this people. We have a huge problem to deal with here. Lets schedule our first meeting and discuss how we can go about making some changes . We don't have to do it at a monthly hoa meeting. We can come together and have a discussion and present our ideas at a later time. Hoa meetings have other things to address which requires a lot of time. Lets devote our time to this issue only and present our ideas when prepared. It would be so nice to have a content community for the first time ever
I feel the need to intercede here. I began this blog with the intent to have a forum for homeowners to speak their mind. We may not always agree with what is said, but unless it is hurtful I do not intend to moderate comments. I think all ideas should be respected and explored. I don't want any homeowners to feel shushed here as one often does at a HOA meeting. That being said if you do have an issue with the board, I would suggest either discussing it with the individual or filing a complaint with the state. No one should live in a community and feel such negativity. Do something about it or let it go. We can work on these problem together. I don't want anyone to feel excluded.
Voicing concerns at a board meeting??? Are you serious? First of all you can sit through a 2 1/2 hour meeting that drags on veering off the agenda at every opportunity, and of course the board puts the homeowners concerns at the very end of their agenda. Why is that? Because our concerns are the least important? It's ridiculous.
What is with the personal vendettas? Is this someone on the board? A gripe about the structure of a meeting and putting a homeowner's concern last is not a personal vendetta. My goodness what is the deal! It is indeed very sad that a tiny issue like this is turned into a discussion about a personal vendetta. Don't look for trouble where there isn't any!
I agree with discussing these issues outside of a board meeting. They do have other issues to discuss and it they are lengthy meetings. Our time would be better spent working on solutions then presenting them to the board at a later date. A "Homeowners Committee". This is not about the Board it is about our community and how we can improve it and our relations within and outside Pawnee Hills.
I agree. Getting together and coming up with solutions is a great idea. The way I understand it, the Board's hands are tied when it comes to making a change regarding the chickens. They really have no control over it do they?
There are other issues besides chickens. If that is all that concerns the homeowners on this blog, then I will support the right to own chickens through a vote and then step back..good luck.
Yes, there are issues besides chickens. Read all the comments and you will see other issues mentioned above. There are other pages too. This blog was started with the intent of discussing concerns, interests, thoughts - anything. It is not just a chicken blog :) I hope you will continue to stick around.
If you have issues of concern besides chickens this is a good opportunity for you to voice those issues. I dont think, besides our board member increase, any updates have ever been done. Cohoalaw.com suggests that updates be done on hoas every 10 and at the very least 20 years. Maybe you could help with that. You voiced a concern about the wording in some of the covenants. Lets check things out. Lets be constructive and factual and leave personal feelings out of this. We can all learn more acceptance of one another and make this neighborhood an even greater place to live. Hoping you will help!
I propose we meet Tuesday March 19th 6:30 and maybe do a potluck. Make it a fun event where everyone feels comfortable and has some time to get to know one another before issues are brought up. EVERYONE SHOULD BE HEARD... and feel comfortable. I would ask the person who started this blog (thank you) to reserve the club house. If you are interested tell your neighbor and bring them with you. We live in a beautiful community with awesome people, lets enjoy one another by getting to know each other.
I put in a request to reserve the clubhouse. The website does not show a conflict for March 19th so it should be fine. I hope some of you will eventually feel comfortable enough to use names here. I have no idea who is posting what?? I, Barb the owner of this blog thank each of you for your participation and am looking forward to more conversation over time. It is encouraging to see such energy. I don't always have so much so please before volunteering me for extra duties, send me an email. It would be much appreciated! By the way the clubhouse still requires us to put a $50 deposit down and make sure the area is clean after our meeting. Not a big deal but it's part of the facilities agreement as we all know....right? lol.
Thanks Barb - very nice for you to do that. I for 1 will stay until the clubhouse is clean and will bring a dish. For all of those planning to attend, please tell your neighbors in case they have not been made aware of the blogsite. Great step in a positive direction to make our community a great place to live.
Here are some real issues for you folks......We now have a monthly covenant reminder in our newsletter as of the first of the year. January's reminder was animal restrictions (gee I wonder why) and March is regarding fences. I have two fence issues........Over 10 years ago, my neighbor erected a 6' x 100' stretch of solid wood fencing between our homes (I am fairly sure it was not approved by the hoa). The purpose of this fence was an attempt to keep his yippie little dog from running over and biting at my heals every time I walked outside to feed my horses. He did not erect it correctly and the first time we had high winds, half of the panels blew down. He re-erected it but it failed again. The house was then sold to another family with the fence in disrepair. Is the hoa going to report and fine these people. I certainly hope not. It is not their fault. I am sure they will take care of it at some point in time. Secondly, I have lived here for over twenty years. My immediate back yard, about 10,000 sq ft, is fenced with treated wood posts and 4' wire. For the first 15 years I had a dog. No deer ever came inside my yard. When the dog died I did not replace him. It took a couple of years for his scent to wear off and the deer to realize he was gone. At that time the herd consisted of about 4 to 5 deer. Over time the heard has multiplied to over a dozen and even more during mating season when the bucks are with them. They have discovered I have lots of goodies in my yard and have gotten very aggressive about jumping over my fence into my yard. They have torn down and damaged my fence and destroyed my garden. I have extended the height of my fence by 3 more feet by running chicken wire. The chicken wire is barely visible and not seen at all from afar. It helps some, but they have still found some weak spots and will just plow over the top of it if frightened enough. I no longer use my round pen for my horses so I have been moving those panels around my yard. I have finally been successful in keeping the deer out.The deer are a menace and a danger when they are so close to my house. Will I be reported and fined by the hoa for this?? I did not ask "permission" to do this. My yard/ my problem. Where do we draw the line between aesthetics, necessity, and circumstance here? It seems covenants are more important than peoples lives.
Why don't you just ask the ACC to approve your fence? The Board only enforces Covenant violations that are reported to them. They really have no choice.
I hear you Anonymous March 4, 20143 at 2:46 AM and I really appreciate the fact that you come here to express your concerns on this blog. Sometimes it seems like the newsletter is closely tied to the homeowner issues for sure. It's as passive aggressive as it gets. We seems to have someone consistently defending the board here which is fine, but don't let this discourage you from speaking your mind. This blog is a place for residents to discuss our issues. It IS NOT a mini HOA meeting. I feel you about the deer. I think that issue is bigger this year than ever, and it's not just in our community. The herds are bigger and are eating all they can. They are extremely destructive and getting more aggressive, not only in our community but in the outlying areas as well. Gardening is a challenge not only with the grasshoppers but the deer as well. We have to fence the flower garden both around and above. Not to mention the pocket gophers. As the "Anonymous" above states, the HOA board only enforces covenant violations that are reported to them. Which means only if a neighbor or someone who wants to cause trouble reports you, you probably don't have much to worry about. The other option is to try and get the fence approved by the architectural committee as suggested above. The worse that can happen is they deny it and hopefully give suggestions on how to fix it within the covenant guidelines. It would be awesome if we could come together under the Good Neighbors tab and if you did need help with the fence you could give a shout out and folks could give you a hand. Perhaps they have some supplies hanging around you need. If we worked together more we wouldn't need to worry about these subliminal threats.
So are you asking if these are issues the board should be involved with? I understand about the deer, they bed down on my property, however I dont have any planted goodies so I actually enjoy them, but I did try to plant a garden several years back, and that was a complete loss. Are fencing issues in the covenants? I think they are only covered by property boundaries. Maybe your new neighbor has a nicer dog..If you wanted to change something about the covenants what would it be?
First and foremost, my neighbors and I do not tell on one another. We have a mutual respect for diversity and rely on knowing that we will support one anothers desires and dreams. I was only afraid, especially for my neighbor with the broken down fence, that was caused by a previous homeowner. I have resolved my own fears by reading the covenant and now feel that I fall within the restrictions. Here is the covenant. 4. FENCE: No fence wall or similar type barrier of any kind shall be constructed, erected or maintained on any lot without the approval of design and materials by the Grantor/Board. No fences are to be built which would encroach upon ten foot public easements along the front of all lot lines facing road. All the materials I have used to repair and reinforce my fence have already been approved many years ago, as was the design. I left 15 foot public easements all around my property. I like the idea of helping each other with problems. When my neighbor is ready to take down his broken down fence maybe we could gather some residents together to help. Also someone mentioned collecting old and abandoned appliances and sharing the haul off costs. Does any one else have appliances they want to get rid of. Lets see if we can put this idea into motion? Oh and by the way...my new neighbor does have a nicer dog. And I would like to see some change in our covenants. Animal restrictions are out dated here. We should be able to have more diversity in the species that we have. Especially those species that can provide food sources or fiber sources. Times are changing in our world. Our foods are being contaminated and laced with undesired ingredients. Our freedoms and dreams are being stripped away one by one. There may be a day when we as neighbors need one another more than we realize. How about starting a community garden?? Maybe we could combat the elements better as a group?
HERE IS AN INTERESTING OBSERVATION.The Vatican requires ALL of its members to attend when they have an election. They also require a 2/3 vote to elect a Pope. All members are required to be there and they are locked in until they reach a 2/3 agreement. In order for us to ever achieve our 2/3 member vote requirement we need the 1/3/ of our members that are not voting, to vote. All of our members should be required to vote. Has anyone realized that if all our members would vote the mystery would be resolved and to put it bluntly....would shut everyone up??
So you would like us to get everyone to vote so we can go back to being a community that doesn't ruffle any feathers (pun intended)? There are more issues than just Chickens.
This is the second time that "there are more issues than just Chickens" has been mentioned in this manner. It seems by the same person. What are those issues?? You obviously seem to think there are some but you make no mention as to what they are. Maybe if you could be more specific we could start addressing those as well. And as far as not ruffling feathers... I think those days are gone. This blog has provided a way for us to express our selves and communicate without personal attack. We know that a least half of the neighborhood wants to make changes. That is evident by the yes votes on the chicken issue. We also know that 1/3 of our residents don't vote and are all labeled as being satisfied with things as they are. Our neighbors who are actually voting for no change are able to use this group to their advantage. Someone said if our residents wanted chickens they would have voted with a "resounding yes" but I say that if they are so opposed why don"t they vote with a resounding no. This group of non voters is to large to be labeled with the same reason for not voting. This group is misrepresented and unrepresented. I for one know of one home near me that sits vacant. There are several residents who are not allowed to vote because they are past due on dues. Many of these residents just don't care. Maybe your issues relate to some of this. How about ruffling some more feathers and share them with us here on the blog or at the community meeting on March 19 at the clubhouse.
Just to be clear, anytime you see a post with the big orange "B" to the left of it that is me, the blog owner, Barb. Just pointing out that beside the Chicken vote, there is the voting process itself. There are many other HOA's that have evolved and changed with the times, unlike our subdivision. We seem to be having a standoff for reasons I just can't fathom. How can our community be so adverse to change? What is so threatening? I remember at one meeting someone expressed the fear that if we let chickens in the next thing you know we'll have alpaca's and goats. We are not asking for Alpaca's and goats, just chickens. That sounds like a fear of change period. Although our processes are outlined clearly in or Bylaws and Covenants it does not mean they are written in stone. They are old and outdated. Our HOA meetings hardly ever have a quorum and most meetings are not held. How is that good for the community? I suppose for those who oppose change it is just fine. Now this is just me, expressing my opinions. I'm not asking for an argument from a board member so don't bother with that. My goal is to make positive changes for the community. For those that don't want change, you don't have to. It's your property. But you also don't need to prevent us from moving forward. How do we get everyone involved? Well I think you have to have a board that supports you in this effort, one that is willing to do whatever it takes to increase attendance at the meetings and participation in the voting process. The HOA needs to make it clear to residents that their involvement is not optional. Change the bylaws. Residents here moved into an HOA which means you are involved in an association requiring some type of involvement, more than just a monthly payment. That doesn't mean you need to spend lots of time with it but at least make your payments and vote on issues.
Anonymous March 7, 2013 at 3:32 PM:(Do you want to give me a code name?), By-law Article III, 2.Voting Rights - I am suggesting an addition of inclusion of language in this section, "non-voting members will not be counted in any proposed change to covenants". It appears this is repeated in the covenants as well under Article III. If proper and reasonable notice is given to all homeowners, and the decision to not vote is made that should not be counted. As it stands now it is counted as a "yes" vote. What are your suggestions?
I see my mistake in the above. "As is stands now it is counted as a "yes" vote. That is obviously incorrect. I meant a "no" vote. Guess it was past my bed time. I also understand that the way the covenants are written is there must be 2/3rds of the community voting yes. One could argue that the apathetic votes are not being counted now. However because they are included in that 2/3rds, they are in fact included in the vote. My proposal is that all homeowners are given proper and reasonable notice. Notice being a mailing of the proposed change, Opportunity for discussion, Notice of Date of Ballot due, either by drop off or mail. Within the notice the homeowner should also be made aware that our community is now in favor of involvement and will calculate changes based on total responses, rather than total number of residents. Of course I am jumping ahead as if the covenant has already been changed.
Or maybe we need to ask for volunteers to go door to door. If we could find one or two people per every 10 households then at least we would know why they wont vote. I am thinking many of the people that didnt vote probably dont want the chickens or they dont care. I have been in the place of "dont care" way too long. I would very much enjoy meeting the people in my neighborhood. I've lived here for over 15 years and only know a handful. Very sad.
This is a very good idea. Maybe we could encourage our "yes" for change voters to tell us who they are. Lets provide a sign up sheet at the community meeting . This would narrow our number of doors we half to knock on by half. We only need about half our non voters to make a difference on the chicken issue. If our mysterious person who keeps mentioning other issues would reveal those issues, maybe those issues would attract the attention of some of our non voters. Thanks for your idea!
Alright guys, point taken. I mentioned other issues in response to the post stating if we got all members to vote it would Shut everyone up. My take on that was that this isn't a one time thing. There will be other issues to vote on in the future. We need to get everyone involved and not Shut every one up.
That is interesting, but I wonder when it changed? Can you give us that information? I reviewed the minutes from the meetings in 2012 (except for September and October, which are missing???) and the Open Forum is consistently listed at the next to last item. January 2013 there was no meeting and the minutes from February aren't up yet, most likely because they were just approved last night.
It is always here for anyone speak their mind and post away! Thanks for your interest. What are your thoughts on the Chicken peeper? How crazy is it a resident trespasses to spy on a neighbor to see if they are keeping Chickens!! If the tables were turned around and he had folks in peeping in his yard how would he feel? I have a petition ready to go and get signatures. Signs will be posted soon.
Since the chicken peeper episode was made public, I've noticed a lot more 'No Trespassing' signs springing up. It saddens me that some us feel compelled to erect these signs in order to protect ourselves from our own neighbors. But it angers me that some people apparently feel it is their right or duty to sneak onto their neighbor's property and snoop around. The questions I'd like to have answered (and I know they won't be) are: 1) Would Mr Peepers have had the guts to trespass if his neighbor had been a man? (thinking not) and 2) How many times had he done this before he got caught?
I find in incomprehensible that anyone man or woman thinks it is their right to trespass on another property to try to catch them in a covenant violation! It is within their rights to submit a complaint to the board but that is it. Mr. Peeper is clearly out of line. I too have toyed with the thought of a NO TRESSPASSING sign since this however it goes against my reason for living out of the city. I wanted to move out into a community where neighbors had privacy, as in didn’t live right on top of each other, yet could get to know one another. I don’t want to discourage my neighbors from visiting. Neighbors as in friendly ones who live in this community. I feel you have a right to feel angered and invaded. Certainly he could have approached you at the front door or by phone. Or not at all and gone through the proper channels.
Your questions are good. They are both scary. And is he the only one doing this type of thing?
Once a peeper always a peeper and what else has mr peeper been peeping on? More than chickens? This could be a criminal offense. Is this how our neighbors are??????????????? HMUPH!!!!!!!!!!!!
So what you're saying is that Mr P 'heard' chickens from somewhere on his property and knew exactly against whom he needed to file his complaint? Interesting theory - too bad it doesn't hold water. Thanks for playing, though.
Lets not start bickering here. Lets work together to get things changing. What does belong here is everyone one in the community with positive efforts of getting along. Also, if you do feel the need to argue, I would ask that you put your name on your posts. Be fair and claim your opinions!
The blog is still here and we are still looking for our residents who want to make some changes. All residents need to know that their participation is necessary even if they do not personally desire the thing that is the issue. For example ... they might not want to raise chickens themselves but would not mind if their neighbors did. How can we contact our non voting members? There are enough of us that want changes in the kinds of animals we can have. It has always been this way. We have a very large represented group that is for change, a very small represented group that says no, and a large unrepresented group that is stifling the process. Those of us who want chickens need your votes. Keep in mind that you might have an issue some time on something you want and might need our votes :) !!
Will the petition for chickens be at the mail boxes again? How do you sign anonymously? I hate to be a chicken but considering the past, I'd rather be safe than sorry.
Yes, I will be bringing the petition out again next week because of the holiday this week. I will post signs and update this blog when I know the date. I will explain the process for signing anonymously when you sign. Thanks so much for your interest!
The petition is to change our current covenant which does not allow poultry. You can see the petition at the signings and I will bring it to our homeowners meeting this month.
The hoa website is down and I have not been able to pay my dues on line this month. I have been calling all the numbers I have and sent two e-mails given to me by answering service. Is anyone on the board aware of this?
The Petition is alive and well. If you want to know where it is at in numbers, feel free to email me directly. Let's just say the light at the end of the tunnel is shining ever brighter!
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ReplyDeleteI'll start out by commenting on the Chicken Issue. I was disappointed by the results. The number of residents that do not participate in these matters makes it impossible to change anything. Come on people, A few hens is not a big deal! As someone posted in the Mail building Apathy had become the ruler in the community.
ReplyDeleteBecause of the way our quorum is set up, we must have 112 actual yes votes from our neighbors. Almost half of them do not bother to vote. All non votes are counted as no vote. This is where our problem lies. The reason we have so many apathetic voters is because of the very incident that happened at the recent January 2013 HOA meeting. A long time resident (who obviously opposes any change) was very rude and condescending towards another homeowner who was supporting change. Even when asked to stop their actions that person continued to harass and threaten with remarks throughout the rest of the meeting. This is not very neighborly behavior..
ReplyDeleteThe counting of non votes is the issue of concern. Many of our residents have decided not to become involved in the issues in this neighborhood because of the very behavior that was exhibited at our most recent HOA meeting in January. We therefor can not assume that all of them are opposed to change.
We need to make a motion to change the statis of all the non votes. Non votes should not be counted or at the very least divided equally between the yes and nos. Then we can fairly meet the needs of our community. As our present system is set it has become an unfair representation of our community. This system gives control to a small majority of homeowners that are getting away with a very selfish and narrow minded agenda.
Anonymous, I agree with you. How can we best accomplish this? We could attempt to change the covenant again and add language to address the apathetic vote. Perhaps a separate covenant change would be a better and cleaner approach.
DeleteGRASSHOPPERS are destroying my food crops. I live on a lot without many trees and lots of open grassy area. I have lived here for over twenty years now. The grasshopper population has gotten worse every year. Last summer it was the worst it has ever been. Drought perpetuates their population. I have tried nolo bait with no success. I do not want to use the severe chemical pesticide that is required to eliminate the crusty buggers. I do not want to destroy the beneficial insects in my garden nor poison the food I grow for my family.Birds are their natural predators but the wild ones can't keep up with the exploding population. We are not allowed to have any domestic foul. Chickens would have been a sensible, natural, eco friendly solution for me. Does anyone have a solution? "The Frustrated Gardener"
DeleteNon votes are not counted as "yes" or "no" votes. They're simply not counted. According to the Covenants, it takes 2/3rds or 112 "yes" votes to change a Covenant.
DeleteIt is currently required to have 2/3 or 112 residents approval to make any changes to our community rules. This would be fine if all our residents would choose to participate in the voting process. More than 1/3 of them are choosing not to vote. If these people are "simply not counted" then they should "simply not be counted' in the total votes required. The 112 votes required for making a change is based on an ideal situation of all 167 members voting.The last time we called for a vote only 104 members voted. Even if they had all voted for change we still could not have reached the 112 goal.As it was...of the voting members we had more than a 2/3 majority for change! This quorum voting system was set up over 30 years ago by the builder to insure protection on voting rights on the undeveloped lots and to insure conformity in the structures and prohibit commercial animal activities like cattle ranching, pig farming and large chicken facilities.
ReplyDeleteIt now unfairly serves a small majority of folks who don't want change and 1/3 of the neighborhood who is apathetic. We need to change our voting total requirement. It should be based on a 2/3 majority of voting members only. Lets make a change so that all of our members can enjoy the lifestyle that they desire. Why are we allowing a few no change members and a silent apathetic group to determine what we can and can not do? We need to locate our non voting members, they are inaccurately represented and inhibiting progress in our neighborhood.
I would like to mention that some of the more vocal non change neighbors are concerned that a few hens might bring down their property values. But after taking a good look at the homes that make up Pawnee Hills - a few hens wouldn't hurt the already declining view of the property included in PHCA. Drive along the streets and you will see piles of concrete in front of houses that have been there for years, Abandoned applieances clearly visable from the streets, buildings in desperate need of repair and scrap metal in heaps around houses. Fences that are falling down etc. There is more eye sore than a couple of hens could cause.'
ReplyDeleteTalk about bringing down property values!!!!! I have a friend who sells realestate. She recently helped one of my neighbors sell their home last year. She said that home and others in Pawnee Hills have been difficult to sell because of the rigid animal restrictions. Times have changed. Many people who want to move here want a little more diversity in the animals they can have. I agree that there are some properties that have unsightly piles of 'stuff". If we are so concerned about animals devaluing our property, why are we not concerned about people devaluing our property???????
DeleteREGARDING OLD APPLIANCES LAYING AROUND How about if we do an old appliance collection day. There are companies who come pick them up. Since we are all so far out here in"paradise", maybe we could gather up several of us who need things taken away. We might be able to get a better rate that way. I have an old fridge in my garage that I would like to get rid of.
DeleteREGARDING ABANDONED APPLIANCES...I have an old fridge I need to get rid of. There are companies that haul them off. Maybe if we could round up a group of us in the neighborhood we could get a better rate since we live so far out here in "paradise". Is there anyone else that has appliances they would like hauled off?
DeleteIt also takes 112 votes to change the "voting procedure". I think most neighbors are satisfied. Didn't any of you read the Covenants before you bought your property? It's fine to try and change a Covenant but don't be upset with those who are happy with it like it is.
ReplyDeleteOnce we have chickens you will still be happy with the way it is!! Lets help support the needs of all members in the community. Maybe we can repair and rejuvenate some good neighborly relationships if we quit trying to micro manage others rights to a fulfilled lifestyle. It so much more rewarding to support one another than is to keep battling and arguing over things that really wont hurt anyone at all. Lets support our neighbors!
DeleteIf the non voters wanted chickens, they would have voted with a resounding "YES". They didn't.
ReplyDeleteI believe that some non voters just don't care one way or the other. This means that they would not care if we had chickens. Some non voters are very discouraged by the behavior displayed by some of our residents at our homeowners meetings and are just refusing to participate at all. I know that some of mine just overlook any thing that goes on. This is a very large group that is miss represented and hindering the fulfillment of the needs of the rest of the community. We must determine who our non voters are and why they are not voting. It is too large of a group to label with satisfaction as the sole reason for not voting. Making voting a requirement to have your voice heard would solve alot of problems in this neighborhood. It would give us true proof of how our residents feel. The request for chickens is very reasonable and will serve our residents in many beneficial ways. Why must others inhibit the progress of such a beneficial addition to our neighborhood?
DeleteMaybe "others" don't see chickens as progress.
DeleteThat is a fair statement. I think there are other reasons that change is needed. For one thing there should be something in our covenants that allow only so many vehicles on the property or at least in open view. And regarding "junk" on the property, I agree there should be some type of guideline in the covenant as well. Step up and submit some language - put it to a vote! The problem lies with the voting process. That's what we need to update. So we can actually change things. If you don't want chickens, don't get them. If your neighbor has a few hens and they are bothering you, talk to them. Though they are much less likely to bother you than their dogs are. Backyard Chickens is a Nationwide movement now and property values are not suffering because of it.
DeleteThere are many more issues besides the chickens. Chickens are allowed in Denver county..city folks. I think if someone wants chickens, they should be able to have them. You just need to include the clause about keeping the area clean. I also feel we live in a small community where our kids dont have a lot to do. One activity is 4H and it would be nice to have some stipulation for those kids to have their project on their property. Our bylaws were written in 1972 and little has been done to update them. I think it may be a good time to get a committee together to review and update.
ReplyDeletelets do get a committee together. We have a club house at our disposal and a web site to communicate on. Lets start a committee and talk about figuring out how to go about solving our non voting member problem. It is obvious that many of our members are frustrated. I am glad this venting is going on here and not at a hoa meeting. Lets make sure we keep things civil here though. No personal vendettas please. We have a huge problem to solve and it sure would be wonderful to be able to come together and work things out .We do need change and an update on our whole system. So...when should we hold our first meeting????
DeleteIt's not a Bylaw change but Covenants which are much more difficult to alter.
ReplyDeleteThanks for clearing that up, maybe a good time to refresh anyway. There is verbiage in the bylaws that allow control beyond what should be given to another homeowner. I know many HOA's hire mgmt companies to run their HOA. Keeps things a little more professional rather than having a couple of folks that use it to abuse those who question their practices or the way they do things. We have a vindictive board and its scary. I just want to know what they are afraid of. Signs get pulled off the bullitan board, and the fact that who ever started this blog was advised by the board they didnt want homeowners talking to one another....whats up with that???? Why do the same people continue to run this HOA? US Presidents only get 8 years. THere is a good reason to change the administration...we need to get new ideas and people who are not so complacent.
ReplyDeleteYou may be righy but exactly how is the board vindictive and what makes you think they're afraid? To my knowledge, they've remained neutral about the subject of chickens in the commmunity. If you're so unhappy with the board, why don't you attend monthly meetings and express your concerns?
DeleteHow exactly has the board been abusive?
DeleteI think we should do away with it all. All we do is bicker and fight. and pay alot of money to outside sources to run a pool and a clubhouse. I have paid over 20,000. in dues since I have lived here and I cant house a couple of measly chickens. I have raised children and lost a husband and just barely hung on to my land and house. I have a ailment that is perpetuated by toxins , hormones and processed foods. I want to be able within common courtesy to farm and raise necessary things to feed my family. I love my home as much as anyone else. Why can I not live as I desire. I could have bought my own pool for 20 grand.
DeletePlease leave personal vendettas out of this people. We have a huge problem to deal with here. Lets schedule our first meeting and discuss how we can go about making some changes . We don't have to do it at a monthly hoa meeting. We can come together and have a discussion and present our ideas at a later time. Hoa meetings have other things to address which requires a lot of time. Lets devote our time to this issue only and present our ideas when prepared. It would be so nice to have a content community for the first time ever
DeleteI feel the need to intercede here. I began this blog with the intent to have a forum for homeowners to speak their mind. We may not always agree with what is said, but unless it is hurtful I do not intend to moderate comments. I think all ideas should be respected and explored. I don't want any homeowners to feel shushed here as one often does at a HOA meeting. That being said if you do have an issue with the board, I would suggest either discussing it with the individual or filing a complaint with the state. No one should live in a community and feel such negativity. Do something about it or let it go. We can work on these problem together. I don't want anyone to feel excluded.
DeleteVoicing concerns at a board meeting??? Are you serious? First of all you can sit through a 2 1/2 hour meeting that drags on veering off the agenda at every opportunity, and of course the board puts the homeowners concerns at the very end of their agenda. Why is that? Because our concerns are the least important? It's ridiculous.
DeleteMore personal vendettas. You just don't get it do you? Very sad.
DeleteWhat is with the personal vendettas? Is this someone on the board? A gripe about the structure of a meeting and putting a homeowner's concern last is not a personal vendetta. My goodness what is the deal! It is indeed very sad that a tiny issue like this is turned into a discussion about a personal vendetta. Don't look for trouble where there isn't any!
DeleteI stand corrected.
DeleteYou would think we already had a bunch of chickens in the neighborhood with all the sqwacking goin' on.
DeleteHa Ha Ha. This blog needed a bit of humor, thank you!
DeleteI agree with discussing these issues outside of a board meeting. They do have other issues to discuss and it they are lengthy meetings. Our time would be better spent working on solutions then presenting them to the board at a later date. A "Homeowners Committee". This is not about the Board it is about our community and how we can improve it and our relations within and outside Pawnee Hills.
ReplyDeleteI agree. Getting together and coming up with solutions is a great idea. The way I understand it, the Board's hands are tied when it comes to making a change regarding the chickens. They really have no control over it do they?
ReplyDeleteThere are other issues besides chickens. If that is all that concerns the homeowners on this blog, then I will support the right to own chickens through a vote and then step back..good luck.
ReplyDeleteYes, there are issues besides chickens. Read all the comments and you will see other issues mentioned above. There are other pages too. This blog was started with the intent of discussing concerns, interests, thoughts - anything. It is not just a chicken blog :) I hope you will continue to stick around.
DeleteIf you have issues of concern besides chickens this is a good opportunity for you to voice those issues. I dont think, besides our board member increase, any updates have ever been done. Cohoalaw.com suggests that updates be done on hoas every 10 and at the very least 20 years. Maybe you could help with that. You voiced a concern about the wording in some of the covenants. Lets check things out. Lets be constructive and factual and leave personal feelings out of this. We can all learn more acceptance of one another and make this neighborhood an even greater place to live. Hoping you will help!
DeleteI propose we meet Tuesday March 19th 6:30 and maybe do a potluck. Make it a fun event where everyone feels comfortable and has some time to get to know one another before issues are brought up. EVERYONE SHOULD BE HEARD... and feel comfortable. I would ask the person who started this blog (thank you) to reserve the club house. If you are interested tell your neighbor and bring them with you. We live in a beautiful community with awesome people, lets enjoy one another by getting to know each other.
ReplyDeleteI put in a request to reserve the clubhouse. The website does not show a conflict for March 19th so it should be fine. I hope some of you will eventually feel comfortable enough to use names here. I have no idea who is posting what?? I, Barb the owner of this blog thank each of you for your participation and am looking forward to more conversation over time. It is encouraging to see such energy. I don't always have so much so please before volunteering me for extra duties, send me an email. It would be much appreciated! By the way the clubhouse still requires us to put a $50 deposit down and make sure the area is clean after our meeting. Not a big deal but it's part of the facilities agreement as we all know....right? lol.
ReplyDeleteThanks Barb - very nice for you to do that. I for 1 will stay until the clubhouse is clean and will bring a dish. For all of those planning to attend, please tell your neighbors in case they have not been made aware of the blogsite. Great step in a positive direction to make our community a great place to live.
ReplyDeleteLooking forward to seeing you all on March 19th!!!
ReplyDeleteHere are some real issues for you folks......We now have a monthly covenant reminder in our newsletter as of the first of the year. January's reminder was animal restrictions (gee I wonder why) and March is regarding fences. I have two fence issues........Over 10 years ago, my neighbor erected a 6' x 100' stretch of solid wood fencing between our homes (I am fairly sure it was not approved by the hoa). The purpose of this fence was an attempt to keep his yippie little dog from running over and biting at my heals every time I walked outside to feed my horses. He did not erect it correctly and the first time we had high winds, half of the panels blew down. He re-erected it but it failed again. The house was then sold to another family with the fence in disrepair. Is the hoa going to report and fine these people. I certainly hope not. It is not their fault. I am sure they will take care of it at some point in time.
DeleteSecondly, I have lived here for over twenty years. My immediate back yard, about 10,000 sq ft, is fenced with treated wood posts and 4' wire. For the first 15 years I had a dog. No deer ever came inside my yard. When the dog died I did not replace him. It took a couple of years for his scent to wear off and the deer to realize he was gone. At that time the herd consisted of about 4 to 5 deer. Over time the heard has multiplied to over a dozen and even more during mating season when the bucks are with them. They have discovered I have lots of goodies in my yard and have gotten very aggressive about jumping over my fence into my yard. They have torn down and damaged my fence and destroyed my garden. I have extended the height of my fence by 3 more feet by running chicken wire. The chicken wire is barely visible and not seen at all from afar. It helps some, but they have still found some weak spots and will just plow over the top of it if frightened enough. I no longer use my round pen for my horses so I have been moving those panels around my yard. I have finally been successful in keeping the deer out.The deer are a menace and a danger when they are so close to my house. Will I be reported and fined by the hoa for this?? I did not ask "permission" to do this. My yard/ my problem. Where do we draw the line between aesthetics, necessity, and circumstance here? It seems covenants are more important than peoples lives.
Why don't you just ask the ACC to approve your fence? The Board only enforces Covenant violations that are reported to them. They really have no choice.
DeleteJanuary was not the first time we've had Covenant reminders. We've had Covenant, By-Law and Rule and Reg reminders the last couple of years.
DeleteI hear you Anonymous March 4, 20143 at 2:46 AM and I really appreciate the fact that you come here to express your concerns on this blog. Sometimes it seems like the newsletter is closely tied to the homeowner issues for sure. It's as passive aggressive as it gets. We seems to have someone consistently defending the board here which is fine, but don't let this discourage you from speaking your mind. This blog is a place for residents to discuss our issues. It IS NOT a mini HOA meeting.
DeleteI feel you about the deer. I think that issue is bigger this year than ever, and it's not just in our community. The herds are bigger and are eating all they can. They are extremely destructive and getting more aggressive, not only in our community but in the outlying areas as well. Gardening is a challenge not only with the grasshoppers but the deer as well. We have to fence the flower garden both around and above. Not to mention the pocket gophers.
As the "Anonymous" above states, the HOA board only enforces covenant violations that are reported to them. Which means only if a neighbor or someone who wants to cause trouble reports you, you probably don't have much to worry about. The other option is to try and get the fence approved by the architectural committee as suggested above. The worse that can happen is they deny it and hopefully give suggestions on how to fix it within the covenant guidelines. It would be awesome if we could come together under the Good Neighbors tab and if you did need help with the fence you could give a shout out and folks could give you a hand. Perhaps they have some supplies hanging around you need. If we worked together more we wouldn't need to worry about these subliminal threats.
So are you asking if these are issues the board should be involved with? I understand about the deer, they bed down on my property, however I dont have any planted goodies so I actually enjoy them, but I did try to plant a garden several years back, and that was a complete loss. Are fencing issues in the covenants? I think they are only covered by property boundaries. Maybe your new neighbor has a nicer dog..If you wanted to change something about the covenants what would it be?
ReplyDeleteFirst and foremost, my neighbors and I do not tell on one another. We have a mutual respect for diversity and rely on knowing that we will support one anothers desires and dreams. I was only afraid, especially for my neighbor with the broken down fence, that was caused by a previous homeowner. I have resolved my own fears by reading the covenant and now feel that I fall within the restrictions. Here is the covenant.
ReplyDelete4. FENCE: No fence wall or similar type barrier of any kind shall be constructed, erected or maintained on any lot without the approval of design and materials by the Grantor/Board. No fences are to be built which would encroach upon ten foot public easements along the front of all lot lines facing road.
All the materials I have used to repair and reinforce my fence have already been approved many years ago, as was the design.
I left 15 foot public easements all around my property.
I like the idea of helping each other with problems. When my neighbor is ready to take down his broken down fence maybe we could gather some residents together to help.
Also someone mentioned collecting old and abandoned appliances and sharing the haul off costs. Does any one else have appliances they want to get rid of. Lets see if we can put this idea into motion?
Oh and by the way...my new neighbor does have a nicer dog. And I would like to see some change in our covenants. Animal restrictions are out dated here. We should be able to have more diversity in the species that we have. Especially those species that can provide food sources or fiber sources. Times are changing in our world. Our foods are being contaminated and laced with undesired ingredients. Our freedoms and dreams are being stripped away one by one. There may be a day when we as neighbors need one another more than we realize.
How about starting a community garden?? Maybe we could combat the elements better as a group?
HERE IS AN INTERESTING OBSERVATION.The Vatican requires ALL of its members to attend when they have an election. They also require a 2/3 vote to elect a Pope. All members are required to be there and they are locked in until they reach a 2/3 agreement. In order for us to ever achieve our 2/3 member vote requirement we need the 1/3/ of our members that are not voting, to vote. All of our members should be required to vote. Has anyone realized that if all our members would vote the mystery would be resolved and to put it bluntly....would shut everyone up??
ReplyDeleteSo you would like us to get everyone to vote so we can go back to being a community that doesn't ruffle any feathers (pun intended)? There are more issues than just Chickens.
DeleteThis is the second time that "there are more issues than just Chickens" has been mentioned in this manner. It seems by the same person. What are those issues?? You obviously seem to think there are some but you make no mention as to what they are. Maybe if you could be more specific we could start addressing those as well. And as far as not ruffling feathers... I think those days are gone. This blog has provided a way for us to express our selves and communicate without personal attack. We know that a least half of the neighborhood wants to make changes. That is evident by the yes votes on the chicken issue. We also know that 1/3 of our residents don't vote and are all labeled as being satisfied with things as they are. Our neighbors who are actually voting for no change are able to use this group to their advantage. Someone said if our residents wanted chickens they would have voted with a "resounding yes" but I say that if they are so opposed why don"t they vote with a resounding no. This group of non voters is to large to be labeled with the same reason for not voting. This group is misrepresented and unrepresented. I for one know of one home near me that sits vacant. There are several residents who are not allowed to vote because they are past due on dues. Many of these residents just don't care. Maybe your issues relate to some of this. How about ruffling some more feathers and share them with us here on the blog or at the community meeting on March 19 at the clubhouse.
DeleteJust to be clear, anytime you see a post with the big orange "B" to the left of it that is me, the blog owner, Barb. Just pointing out that beside the Chicken vote, there is the voting process itself. There are many other HOA's that have evolved and changed with the times, unlike our subdivision. We seem to be having a standoff for reasons I just can't fathom. How can our community be so adverse to change? What is so threatening? I remember at one meeting someone expressed the fear that if we let chickens in the next thing you know we'll have alpaca's and goats. We are not asking for Alpaca's and goats, just chickens. That sounds like a fear of change period. Although our processes are outlined clearly in or Bylaws and Covenants it does not mean they are written in stone. They are old and outdated. Our HOA meetings hardly ever have a quorum and most meetings are not held. How is that good for the community? I suppose for those who oppose change it is just fine. Now this is just me, expressing my opinions. I'm not asking for an argument from a board member so don't bother with that. My goal is to make positive changes for the community. For those that don't want change, you don't have to. It's your property. But you also don't need to prevent us from moving forward. How do we get everyone involved? Well I think you have to have a board that supports you in this effort, one that is willing to do whatever it takes to increase attendance at the meetings and participation in the voting process. The HOA needs to make it clear to residents that their involvement is not optional. Change the bylaws. Residents here moved into an HOA which means you are involved in an association requiring some type of involvement, more than just a monthly payment. That doesn't mean you need to spend lots of time with it but at least make your payments and vote on issues.
Deletewell said!
DeleteBarb, their involvement is optional. What By-law are you suggesting be changed and to what? You absolutely cannot force homeowners to vote.
DeleteAnonymous March 7, 2013 at 3:32 PM:(Do you want to give me a code name?), By-law Article III, 2.Voting Rights - I am suggesting an addition of inclusion of language in this section, "non-voting members will not be counted in any proposed change to covenants". It appears this is repeated in the covenants as well under Article III. If proper and reasonable notice is given to all homeowners, and the decision to not vote is made that should not be counted. As it stands now it is counted as a "yes" vote. What are your suggestions?
DeleteI see my mistake in the above. "As is stands now it is counted as a "yes" vote. That is obviously incorrect. I meant a "no" vote. Guess it was past my bed time. I also understand that the way the covenants are written is there must be 2/3rds of the community voting yes. One could argue that the apathetic votes are not being counted now. However because they are included in that 2/3rds, they are in fact included in the vote. My proposal is that all homeowners are given proper and reasonable notice. Notice being a mailing of the proposed change, Opportunity for discussion, Notice of Date of Ballot due, either by drop off or mail. Within the notice the homeowner should also be made aware that our community is now in favor of involvement and will calculate changes based on total responses, rather than total number of residents. Of course I am jumping ahead as if the covenant has already been changed.
DeleteOr maybe we need to ask for volunteers to go door to door. If we could find one or two people per every 10 households then at least we would know why they wont vote. I am thinking many of the people that didnt vote probably dont want the chickens or they dont care. I have been in the place of "dont care" way too long. I would very much enjoy meeting the people in my neighborhood. I've lived here for over 15 years and only know a handful. Very sad.
ReplyDeleteThis is a very good idea. Maybe we could encourage our "yes" for change voters to tell us who they are. Lets provide a sign up sheet at the community meeting . This would narrow our number of doors we half to knock on by half. We only need about half our non voters to make a difference on the chicken issue. If our mysterious person who keeps mentioning other issues would reveal those issues, maybe those issues would attract the attention of some of our non voters.
DeleteThanks for your idea!
Alright guys, point taken. I mentioned other issues in response to the post stating if we got all members to vote it would Shut everyone up. My take on that was that this isn't a one time thing. There will be other issues to vote on in the future. We need to get everyone involved and not Shut every one up.
Delete"Open Forum" is held at the beginning of the Board of Directors' meetings. Above, it was stated that it's held at the end.
ReplyDeleteThat is interesting, but I wonder when it changed? Can you give us that information? I reviewed the minutes from the meetings in 2012 (except for September and October, which are missing???) and the Open Forum is consistently listed at the next to last item. January 2013 there was no meeting and the minutes from February aren't up yet, most likely because they were just approved last night.
DeleteI couldn't make it to the meeting last night. Did you have a good turnout and what all did you guys discuss?
ReplyDeleteHUMPH
DeleteBarb, what has happened to your blog? It was very active and good for the community. Let's get it going again.
ReplyDeleteIt is always here for anyone speak their mind and post away! Thanks for your interest. What are your thoughts on the Chicken peeper? How crazy is it a resident trespasses to spy on a neighbor to see if they are keeping Chickens!! If the tables were turned around and he had folks in peeping in his yard how would he feel? I have a petition ready to go and get signatures. Signs will be posted soon.
DeleteSince the chicken peeper episode was made public, I've noticed a lot more 'No Trespassing' signs springing up. It saddens me that some us feel compelled to erect these signs in order to protect ourselves from our own neighbors. But it angers me that some people apparently feel it is their right or duty to sneak onto their neighbor's property and snoop around. The questions I'd like to have answered (and I know they won't be) are: 1) Would Mr Peepers have had the guts to trespass if his neighbor had been a man? (thinking not) and 2) How many times had he done this before he got caught?
DeleteI find in incomprehensible that anyone man or woman thinks it is their right to trespass on another property to try to catch them in a covenant violation! It is within their rights to submit a complaint to the board but that is it. Mr. Peeper is clearly out of line. I too have toyed with the thought of a NO TRESSPASSING sign since this however it goes against my reason for living out of the city. I wanted to move out into a community where neighbors had privacy, as in didn’t live right on top of each other, yet could get to know one another. I don’t want to discourage my neighbors from visiting. Neighbors as in friendly ones who live in this community.
DeleteI feel you have a right to feel angered and invaded. Certainly he could have approached you at the front door or by phone. Or not at all and gone through the proper channels.
Your questions are good. They are both scary. And is he the only one doing this type of thing?
Once a peeper always a peeper and what else has mr peeper been peeping on? More than chickens? This could be a criminal offense. Is this how our neighbors are??????????????? HMUPH!!!!!!!!!!!!
Delete"and what else has mr peeper been peeping on?"
DeleteAnd that's the scariest question yet......
I heard that he wasn't trespassing and heard the chickens from his own property. There are always two sides to every story.
DeleteSo what you're saying is that Mr P 'heard' chickens from somewhere on his property and knew exactly against whom he needed to file his complaint? Interesting theory - too bad it doesn't hold water. Thanks for playing, though.
DeleteAt least I play well with others. You obviously don't. I'm sorry for you and your sarcastic attitude. It doesn't belong here.
DeleteLets not start bickering here. Lets work together to get things changing. What does belong here is everyone one in the community with positive efforts of getting along. Also, if you do feel the need to argue, I would ask that you put your name on your posts. Be fair and claim your opinions!
DeleteThe blog is still here and we are still looking for our residents who want to make some changes. All residents need to know that their participation is necessary even if they do not personally desire the thing that is the issue. For example ... they might not want to raise chickens themselves but would not mind if their neighbors did. How can we contact our non voting members? There are enough of us that want changes in the kinds of animals we can have. It has always been this way. We have a very large represented group that is for change, a very small represented group that says no, and a large unrepresented group that is stifling the process. Those of us who want chickens need your votes. Keep in mind that you might have an issue some time on something you want and might need our votes :) !!
ReplyDeleteyippie kiayo kiyea gallopin all the way here comes quick draw Mc Draw..................!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ReplyDeleteYou might be rushing to judgment. Let's be careful here.
ReplyDeleteWill the petition for chickens be at the mail boxes again? How do you sign anonymously? I hate to be a chicken but considering the past, I'd rather be safe than sorry.
ReplyDeleteYes, I will be bringing the petition out again next week because of the holiday this week. I will post signs and update this blog when I know the date. I will explain the process for signing anonymously when you sign. Thanks so much for your interest!
DeleteNo pun intended.
ReplyDeleteWhat is this petition I am hearing about?
ReplyDeleteThe petition is to change our current covenant which does not allow poultry. You can see the petition at the signings and I will bring it to our homeowners meeting this month.
DeleteDon't forget the Annual Homeowners' meeting Saturday at the clubhouse at 10:00. Hope to see you there.
ReplyDeleteWhat goes on at the meeting?
ReplyDeleteThey won't have the meeting. They'll never get a quorum. There's too much apathy in our community. How many of you are planning on going?
ReplyDeleteDoes anyone know if the meeting was held on the 27th? I was out of town and unable to attend.
ReplyDeleteThere was not a quorum for a meeting. There were 22 lots represented instead of the 51 required for a meeting.
ReplyDeleteThe hoa website is down and I have not been able to pay my dues on line this month. I have been calling all the numbers I have and sent two e-mails given to me by answering service. Is anyone on the board aware of this?
DeleteWhat's the latest on the petition? Does anyone know how close it is to getting passed?
ReplyDeleteThe Petition is alive and well. If you want to know where it is at in numbers, feel free to email me directly. Let's just say the light at the end of the tunnel is shining ever brighter!
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